tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3266371808927804670.post7632057177541172596..comments2023-08-15T05:06:03.233-06:00Comments on The Writing Sisterhood: The Freedom to OffendThe Sisterhoodhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09889577041903181315noreply@blogger.comBlogger18125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3266371808927804670.post-74920239541256624872012-10-04T18:50:36.138-06:002012-10-04T18:50:36.138-06:00Thanks again for your insight, Major H. I apprecia...Thanks again for your insight, Major H. I appreciate the perspective we don't get to hear much otherwise.Stephaniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02187854108656107958noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3266371808927804670.post-88765498296830697122012-10-04T15:54:51.084-06:002012-10-04T15:54:51.084-06:00Stephanie,
You are right about the poor quality o...Stephanie,<br /><br />You are right about the poor quality of the film. And yes where I am the truth came out in the media that it was produced by an Egyptian Coptic and that it was not truly a full length film shown in the theaters as was originally portrayed by the media. But it took about five days before the real truth came out. <br /><br />Yes, I believe that virtually every active Salifist group (not just AQ) utilized this film for propaganda purposes and that has contributed to the violence and general instability of the region. <br /><br />Major HAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3266371808927804670.post-19607789291162988232012-10-03T13:49:01.471-06:002012-10-03T13:49:01.471-06:00How refreshing. Thanks for sharing.How refreshing. Thanks for sharing.Lorenahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17848249911635132594noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3266371808927804670.post-24637333203394832472012-10-03T13:43:55.064-06:002012-10-03T13:43:55.064-06:00"Political leaders with a clear agenda wait f..."Political leaders with a clear agenda wait for the right moment, point to something theoretically offensive, and say 'Go.'"<br /><br />I think you're absolutely right. That is why I have always hated politics. I believe most people are in it for their own selfish interests, be it power, money or to push their agendas on others. Perhaps my disenchantment is a result of where I come from, where you have presidents who after four years of office become millionaires, move to mansions overseas and never work again. Meanwhile the public hospitals are so poor people have to lie down on counters/desks/chairs and their family members are given a list of items to get their patients (band aids, pain killers, syringes, etc). The corruption there is unbelievable.Lorenahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17848249911635132594noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3266371808927804670.post-19160889366337185202012-10-03T13:35:47.470-06:002012-10-03T13:35:47.470-06:00I could only stomach about 6 or 7 minutes of the &...I could only stomach about 6 or 7 minutes of the "film". Think school production or B-rated movie where actors are superimposed over a scenery. Add bad acting, bad quality and uncomfortable situations to watch. I was offended and I'm not even a Muslim! But I think they are giving it too much importance. It's not like it's a Hollywood production being distributed all over the world. It's a lame You Tube clip.Lorenahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17848249911635132594noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3266371808927804670.post-65996386198557061502012-10-03T10:30:02.697-06:002012-10-03T10:30:02.697-06:00What gets me is that they go and burn and destroy ...What gets me is that they go and burn and destroy their own backyards while chanting "Down with America!" It makes no sense. Why destroy yourselves over something so minute?<br /><br />Great quotes, by the way!Mary Maryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09429769115085903305noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3266371808927804670.post-14882016262131059882012-10-03T10:10:26.493-06:002012-10-03T10:10:26.493-06:00This morning a story popped up in my news feed I w...This morning a story popped up in my news feed I want to share: "Muslims for Free Speech," by William Saletan for Slate Magazine. I hope our readers here take a moment to read it.<br /><br />http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/frame_game/2012/10/muslims_for_free_speech_can_islam_tolerate_innocence_of_muslims_.html<br /><br />Some highlights:<br /><br />'The riots and the lectures paint a picture of Islam as a culture allergic to unfettered free speech. That picture is misleading. There are Muslim liberals. They don’t show up on your TV screen, because they don’t riot. Today, they’re a small minority of the Muslim population. But with the help of global communications technology and the Arab spring, they’re beginning to make a case for greater tolerance. Here’s a sample of what they’ve said about the latest affronts to Islam: the video, the “savage” subway ads in New York, and the Mohammed cartoons in France. Their words and thoughts are worth your time.'<br /><br />"Governments and individuals frequently abuse national blasphemy laws to stifle dissent and debate, harass rivals, legitimize mob violence, and settle petty disputes. The loose and unclear language of these laws empowers majorities against dissenters and the state against individuals. They provide a context in which governments can restrict freedom of expression, thought, and religion, and this can result in devastating consequences for those holding religious views that differ from the majority religion, as well as for adherents to minority faiths. … Rather than criminalizing speech, U.N. member states should step up their commitments to fighting hate crimes, countering hateful discourse, opposing discrimination and promoting interfaith and intercultural dialogue. “ —Muslim Public Affairs Council and Human Rights First<br /><br />“The truth is that as amateurish as the movie production is, it still falls in the category of freedom of speech. If you say that to people here, they will read your response as: ‘You accept this. You are a blasphemer.’ They still don’t understand that they don’t have to accept it. They can oppose it, but in a civil manner that is more constructive.” —Ebtehal Al-Khateeb, professor, Kuwait University<br /><br />“Yes the film was bad, yes the film was intolerant, and yes it poorly reflects the values that most Americans uphold, honor, and believe in. … How about growing some thick skin, brains, and actual faith next time and not necessarily in that order. Make a rebuttal film, challenge to a debate, hold a press conference,… do SOMETHING that shows that Muslims are not a bunch of horned up teenage males with mommy-daddy issues and a lack of viable outlets.” —Robert Salaam, The American Muslim<br /><br />“I would ask Muslims to recognize that the best way to oppose hate speech is to ignore it. Reaction is precisely what a hater wants to provoke. We can show the falsity of their messages simply by turning our backs.” —Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf, founder, Cordoba Initiative, and former lead advocate of the (not) Ground Zero (not) mosqueStephaniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02187854108656107958noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3266371808927804670.post-57080829611046984142012-10-03T08:41:37.599-06:002012-10-03T08:41:37.599-06:00:):)Stephaniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02187854108656107958noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3266371808927804670.post-6901182664770291472012-10-03T08:40:53.046-06:002012-10-03T08:40:53.046-06:00Precisely! I heard a great quote from Anna Quindle...Precisely! I heard a great quote from Anna Quindlen about offensive language and free speech: "Ignorant free speech often works against the speaker. That is one of several reasons why it must be given free rein instead of suppressed." Usually people like Nakoula will bury themselves with their stupid opinions: we don't need to do it for them.Stephaniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02187854108656107958noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3266371808927804670.post-59036190286813705692012-10-03T08:36:45.526-06:002012-10-03T08:36:45.526-06:00"Imagine if there were laws in America that m..."Imagine if there were laws in America that made irreverence against other religions (Christianity included) a crime? They would make life inconvenient for many people." It would be far more than inconvenient: it would be a travesty. We live in a democracy. Free speech is an essential cornerstone of democracy: to give that up would be to give up on democracy itself.<br /><br />"Perhaps USA should have anti-blasphemy laws..." Do you really think so?Stephaniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02187854108656107958noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3266371808927804670.post-81360156425348334732012-10-03T08:32:00.253-06:002012-10-03T08:32:00.253-06:00"One of the actresses in the infamous film yo..."One of the actresses in the infamous film you mention said she didn't have any idea that it was going to be about Mohammed." I heard that too, and that she was paid $500 and needed the money. The quip I heard in response was, "Hasn't this woman ever heard of porn?" Ha. It does seem remarkably clueless of her not pick up on something a bit suspicious about that whole setup. I am certain you are correct that the filmmaker only intended to insult, not to debate or discuss ... Rushdie, on the contrary, was flabbergasted that his novel provoked outrage, as there's very little (I hear, I haven't read it yet) provocative about it. That Nakoula and Rushdie could both end up with a $500,000 bounty on their heads, issued by essentially the same group of people, is bizarre. Clearly, the intent of the "artist," the content of the "art," and the reaction of the radicals have almost no relationship to each other. As Rushdie said, "There's an outrage industry, people who look for things to provoke their audience. It is, to large extent, manufactured." Political leaders with a clear agenda wait for the right moment, point to something theoretically offensive, and say "Go." Boom: instant riot.Stephaniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02187854108656107958noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3266371808927804670.post-25485539930028241202012-10-03T08:09:34.440-06:002012-10-03T08:09:34.440-06:00You are probably the only person I know who has ac...You are probably the only person I know who has actually seen the movie, Major H! I hear it was as offensive in terms of production and acting as it was in content. Do the locals you speak with understand that it was made by a fellow Egyptian? My guess is there's quite a lot of chatter about it that's demagoguery and not fact-based. And I hear rumors that it was exploited by AQ to as a propaganda tool. I suppose we'll hear more about this in the next few weeks.<br /><br />Thanks for chiming in. :)Stephaniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02187854108656107958noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3266371808927804670.post-15487535347802088832012-10-03T07:59:51.522-06:002012-10-03T07:59:51.522-06:00Spot on! Now, are you with the People's Front ...Spot on! Now, are you with the People's Front of Judea, or the Judean People's Front?Stephaniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02187854108656107958noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3266371808927804670.post-34638272064562221302012-10-02T18:11:28.945-06:002012-10-02T18:11:28.945-06:00"Six hundred years ago we would have been bur..."Six hundred years ago we would have been burned for this. Now, what I'm suggesting is that we've advanced."<br />-John Cleese defending the film Life of Brian on BBC chat show Friday Night Saturday Morning (9 November 1979)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3266371808927804670.post-52107666212894512602012-10-01T15:00:55.201-06:002012-10-01T15:00:55.201-06:00Stephanie,
Great, relevant and thought provoking...Stephanie, <br /><br />Great, relevant and thought provoking article! <br /><br />Mary Mary, Malena and Lorena all make thoughtful comments too. <br /><br />I can say that living here in the Middle East it is frustrating when this stuff happens because the people here will never truly understand Freedom of Expression in a Western context, particularly the American brand. I have had many a discussion about this with my Arab friends and acquaintances and even the most pro-American and freedom loving were still deeply offended by this movie and mystified by our Government's lack of action to censor it. <br /><br />I have to say that I found the movie to be offensive and from a practical point of view it made my job here much more difficult than it needs to be. <br /><br />However, hurt feelings in the Middle East, America or anywhere else in the world can never be allowed to change our way of life!<br /><br />Major H Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3266371808927804670.post-85057031690777208982012-10-01T13:58:43.483-06:002012-10-01T13:58:43.483-06:00Sister Steph,
You've made an excellent point:...Sister Steph,<br /><br />You've made an excellent point: in order to make a change, you must make people think, not offend them. After all, defensiveness and anger are never conducive to dialogue. Unfortunately, not everyone aims to have a healthy debate. One of the actresses in the infamous film you mention said she didn't have any idea that it was going to be about Mohammed. Apparently, the director told them it was about some random Muslim guy called “George” (I don’t know if she’s lying to protect herself, if she’s too innocent or if she chose to believe him in order to be in a film, but it seems hard to believe that she (and the rest of the crew) would have bought this.) However, if you look at the film, you can see that some portions were, in fact, dubbed. So the filmmaker KNEW the kinds of consequences his film would have (based on recent history) and it seems likely that his intention was not to have an open dialogue about Mohammed, but to shock, offend and cause an uproar (which he did). In my opinion, this “free speakers” are not achieving anything positive. Just endangering the lives of Americans abroad. I understand the indignation of the Muslims protesters, but what I don’t understand is their reaction. Why are they protesting against Americans when the filmmaker was EGYPTIAN??? It’s like punishing the neighbor for something another kid in the block did just because he’s closer. It doesn't make any sense.<br /><br />On the other hand, I don’t think “Blasphemy Laws” are the solution because, where do you draw the line? It’s OK to insult Jesus/Christians because they’re more “laid back” and don’t react violently? I understand that it’s not all Muslims who react with violence, but one common behavior I have noticed from moderate Muslims is to justify the bad behavior of the protesters (“Well, if you look at American foreign policy then bla, bla, bla”) instead of condoning their wrongdoings and getting angry at them for making them look bad.<br />Lorenahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17848249911635132594noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3266371808927804670.post-5939842833277794502012-10-01T11:43:50.296-06:002012-10-01T11:43:50.296-06:00Very current, but very thorny subject.
I read The ...Very current, but very thorny subject.<br />I read The Satanic Verses, in its day, when it was subject of controversy, and found it rather dull. However, as a religious person I resent the mocking of any religion. And yet, a “fatwa” was extremely “extreme.” Wasn’t it enough to boycott/burn the book like The Bible Belt did/does with Harry Potter?<br /><br />Moving to the present uproar. I can understand moderate Muslims feeling confused and hurt because the USA does little to punish the culprits. Perhaps USA should have anti-blasphemy laws, but do they help? Denmark has an anti-blasphemy law that has not been enforced since the 30’s, despite the recent proliferation of anti-Islam cartoons. Bangladesh makes it a criminal offense to display disrespect against ANY religion, but that has not stopped the present anti-Buddhist persecution. <br /><br />Most European countries are repelling those anti-blasphemy laws because they do more harm than good. Imagine if there were laws in America that made irreverence against other religions (Christianity included) a crime? They would make life inconvenient for many people. Even using (in common speech) the L-rd’s name in vain could be punishable. <br /><br />And about why novelists have little impact in culture the answer is simple. People do not read, if you have something to say or to protest about, is much more practical to go out in the street hurling stones against something or someone, or making a video and hanging it in YouTube.<br />Malenahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08764070340451077376noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3266371808927804670.post-18821571485038484592012-09-30T18:38:22.781-06:002012-09-30T18:38:22.781-06:00Very thorough and very well written, Sister Steph....Very thorough and very well written, Sister Steph. I remember watching a news broadcast one day following the brouhaha in a Mideastern country. The reporter (very brave soul, if you ask me) asked an obviously Muslim woman (because of the way she dressed) if she believed in freedom of speech. "Of course," she said. "But not when it comes to our religion." I think that pretty much sums up all those protesters' thoughts on that crappy little movie on YouTube.<br /><br />As an American, I believe we have the right to say whatever we want. But yes, you're right, what we might say can make another person angry and those are the consequences we have to deal with. When it comes to literature, we have to decide what we see as good for ourselves. We can read whatever we like, but we all have different tastes and belief systems. Although I read so many different types of literature, there are ones I stay away from because of personal beliefs, or simply because I'm not interested in the genre. But that's not someone shoving it down my throat, it's just me deciding what I see as good, bad, boring, or just plain beyond what would interest me.Mary Maryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09429769115085903305noreply@blogger.com