tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3266371808927804670.post2887038782310198487..comments2023-08-15T05:06:03.233-06:00Comments on The Writing Sisterhood: Too Dark for Teens?The Sisterhoodhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09889577041903181315noreply@blogger.comBlogger18125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3266371808927804670.post-65685362213135890952011-08-11T20:20:57.843-06:002011-08-11T20:20:57.843-06:00"YA novels are much racier and darker than ma..."YA novels are much racier and darker than mainstream because they are supposed to alert and instruct their readers..." <br /><br />I wouldn't say they are darker than mainstream; mainstream can be pretty dark. We just notice it more, and are more shocked, for a variety of reasons, when teens are the target audience. I don't think writers of YA go out thinking, "I am teaching young people how the world works!" I know I don't. I think, "Hmm, stuff happened to me (or to my friends) that could form the basis of a great story. Right, I'm off then!"<br /><br />"The difference with today is that even though these horrible things happened in fiction, most of the times they happened 'off stage.'" While this may be true with Greek tragedies, fairy tales of yore are so dark modern moms and dads refuse to read them to their kids now. Cleaned up versions populate the current market instead. In Roman times, families attended gladiator games; in Victorian times, they attended public executions. Children historically have not been especially sheltered. I don't think this has always been a good thing. Watching violence, and pitting it as good, can inure the next generation to violence. It's not a black and white issue.<br /><br />"Producers/directors/writers are getting bolder each year including gratuitous sex to appeal to younger audiences. And I don't think their intention is to educate." I'm sure that's true about books as well. (I think it's totally fine to discuss movies and TV along books: stories are stories, to some degree.) There really isn't much we can do about the crappy state of things, though, except a) not to add to it ourselves as writers and b) to pay attention to it as parents. If our stories aren't full of terrible writing and gratuitous sex and drugs, and if we aren't handing our kids said books, then that's all we can do.<br /><br /><br />That said, we all have acknowledged we read VC Andrews as teens, and it doesn't get much more sordid, does it? How many of us went and slept with our brothers as a result? =:O Not too many. There are a few kids who might go off the rails because they're exposed, via books, to "too much." But I really agree with the chart I linked: there's more damage done by trying to repress books than there is by books themselves.Stephaniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02187854108656107958noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3266371808927804670.post-29127932426026377012011-08-11T19:53:41.957-06:002011-08-11T19:53:41.957-06:00I'm so glad people have jumped in and added th...I'm so glad people have jumped in and added their $0.02 to this topic!<br /><br />I attended a roundtable discussion recently with three local YA authors. (I should have mentioned this earlier, I keep forgetting.) I asked one of the authors about this topic: I was worried about whether I had too much "gritty reality" in my current book, which is borderline YA. (It could be YA, could be women's fiction.) She said, "Don't worry about it. Write whatever you feel is true, and let the publishing industry worry about how to market it." The other two nodded in vehement agreement.<br /><br />Now. This conflicts a bit from what we hear from agents, I realize. But these are published YA authors, so I think their opinion counts for a lot.Stephaniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02187854108656107958noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3266371808927804670.post-65876155134100147852011-08-11T12:10:04.066-06:002011-08-11T12:10:04.066-06:00A thought-provoking post, Sister Steph.
To me, ba...A thought-provoking post, Sister Steph.<br /><br />To me, balance is key. We don't want to shelter our kids until adulthood but we don't want to throw them too early to learn about the "harsh realities of life" (in vivid detail) just because we don't want them to have a distorted view of the world.<br /><br />I haven't read a lot of YA fiction recently, except for the Twilight saga, so I can't speak with authority on the subject. But if they're anything like the current TV shows "for teens" I would be biting my nails too. Like many of you, I also read a lot of adult fiction when I was a teen, but the level of sexual/gory detaiI in the books I read during my teenage years cannot compare to the explicit scenes we can find on TV shows geared for YA nowadays. Just take a look at True Blood, Gossip Girl or Glee.<br /><br />Steph, you point out some Greek tragedies and classics which have dealt with disturbing topics. The difference with today is that even though these horrible things happened in fiction, most of the times they happened "off stage." Someone told the audience what happened or things were implied, whereas nowadays (in film particularly) the audience experiences in lurid detail all kinds of disturbing situations. (Here's where the "show" vs "tell" makes a huge/obvious difference.) Take a look at "Dangerous Liasons". The original was an epistolary novel about two characters who exchanged letters where they schemed their revenge over a character through the seduction and downfall of another. The story is pretty dark in concept, but the "telling" between the <br />characters is hardly as visceral/disturbing as the modern film version "Cruel Intentions" (which has an added element of lesbianism that didn't happen in the book or in the earlier movie version with John Malkovich, Michelle Pfeiffer and Glenn Close). If you look at the cast of Cruel Intentions (Sarah Michelle Gellar, Ryan Phillippe, and Reese Witherspoon, a much younger cast than earlier version) it's clear who the target audience for this movie was. So what does that tell us?Producers/directors/writers are getting bolder each year including gratuitous sex to appeal to younger audiences. And I don't think their intention is to educate. <br /><br />Here's where I wholeheartedly agree with you: it's all in the presentation. But unfortunately many of these difficult issues are dealt in a very superficial/irresponsible way.<br /><br />Sorry to have turned this discussion away from literature and focused it on Film/TV, but I've noticed that many of these shows/movies stem from novels (a disturbing thought for a novelist if this is not the direction you wanted for your book!)Lorenahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17848249911635132594noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3266371808927804670.post-25060777103590983092011-08-11T11:20:42.127-06:002011-08-11T11:20:42.127-06:00So bottom line, YA novels are much racier and dark...So bottom line, YA novels are much racier and darker than mainstream because they are supposed to alert and instruct their readers (and their parents). But some parents fear their children will mimic the behavior of the protagonists. I was reading adult literature since grade school, and my mother had no problem with that. She assumed ,since most characters were much older than I was, and most stories were set in older days, I was not going to follow their steps. But when she got hold of "Go ask Alice", she almost had a fit. She was eyeing me suspiciously for weeks, until she finally blurted out “Don’t you even think of doing drugs like that Alice!”Violantehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02800111423488923625noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3266371808927804670.post-43044862880208054952011-08-11T11:04:03.386-06:002011-08-11T11:04:03.386-06:00"It's shameful to raise our children in a..."It's shameful to raise our children in a protective bubble, because the first time they encounter pain, it will shock the bejesus out of them. They'll contemplate suicide. They'll cower in fear instead of standing tall and fighting for what they believe is right." EE, this is so well said. I wish I'd read novels like the current crop of YA: I remember when my first friend disclosed to me that she'd been sexually abused, and my initial reaction was utter disbelief. I had no idea how to talk to her about it, how to feel about it myself. If I'd read even one of the many excellent YA books that broach this topic, I'd have been a better friend. And if SHE had read one of those books, she might have found a way out of her nightmare a little earlier. One of four girls is sexually abused, so no wonder we see the topic so much in YA. I see criticism that writing about it "normalizes" it and somehow makes the situation worse, which I think is utter tosh. We need to be shining more flashlights into more closets, not putting our hands over our eyes and pretending if we don't talk about hard things, they'll go away. And more to the immediate point: we can't pretend that if we keep our kids ignorant, bad things won't happen to them.<br /><br />Young Adult fiction is a funny place where being a writer, a parent, and a reader come together, isn't it?Stephaniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02187854108656107958noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3266371808927804670.post-42491672894244039872011-08-11T10:51:03.225-06:002011-08-11T10:51:03.225-06:00"I just want to know what my kids are reading..."I just want to know what my kids are reading so that we can talk about our own value system, and also make sure they understand reality when it comes to sex, relationships, etc." Maggie, I wholeheartedly agree. My teenager just picked up "The Adoration of Jenna Fox," a bestselling YA novel, and she asked me to read it along with her, so I've got the audiobook and she's got the paper copy. :) We often read the same books, from those assigned at school to the read-for-pleasure YA. I don't want to limit what she's being exposed to as much anymore, now that she's not a child, but I do want to be right next to her as she experiences-by-proxy so we can discuss it ... for all the reasons you listed! Plus another, more selfish reason: as a writer who might do a YA novel someday, I want to know how the bestsellers are doing it. :)Stephaniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02187854108656107958noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3266371808927804670.post-87723009842429672602011-08-11T10:46:57.618-06:002011-08-11T10:46:57.618-06:00"I'll be honest, there are some books I&#..."I'll be honest, there are some books I've made her take back to the library because I believe the content is too dark for her (and this is in grade school)." Sister MM, I couldn't agree more: I have made my kids turn away some books, too. Your daughter and my son are still in grade school, and at this age they are children, not young adults. They need our supervision. Teenagers are in a different, however, and that's mostly what I'm focusing on here.Stephaniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02187854108656107958noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3266371808927804670.post-9421961416297089272011-08-11T09:04:15.344-06:002011-08-11T09:04:15.344-06:00I'm raising my kids in the United States, but ...I'm raising my kids in the United States, but think of families raising their kids in Afghanistan, Syria, and the Congo. In war-ravaged countries, a ten-year-old sees atrocities that would shock even the most stalwart adults. May I remind you that Hamza al-Khatib was only 13 years old when the Syrian government tortured and killed him?<br /><br />So when you say, "[Reading YA] was a way to experience things without actually having to live through them, a way to learn lessons without having to get hurt," I say, "Amen, sistah!" <br /><br />Unlike most US citizens, I read the original version of "The Little Mermaid" to my children. There's no happy-ever-after in this tale. Why not? Because life is painful. The sooner my kids understand that, the better. God forbid they should ever find themselves living through the kinds of tragedies that war torn countries often face, but in the immortal words of the Dread Pirate Roberts (alias Wesley), "Life is pain, highness" and there's no getting around that. Art should reflect life. <br /><br />It's shameful to raise our children in a protective bubble, because the first time they encounter pain, it will shock the bejesus out of them. They'll contemplate suicide. They'll cower in fear instead of standing tall and fighting for what they believe is right.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3266371808927804670.post-85801122638122624622011-08-10T23:39:20.440-06:002011-08-10T23:39:20.440-06:00I loved this post. I have twin daughters who will ...I loved this post. I have twin daughters who will be nine years old in a few weeks. One of them is pretty much at her age level, reading-wise, so she doesn't cause much stress. The other daughter, however...sigh. She has read all the Harry Potter books, all the Percy Jackson ones, and just finished The Hunger Games trilogy (and loved it...although she said she "skipped the kissing parts.") <br /><br />When I was younger, I read Go Ask Alice about a million times, and also was OBSESSED with stories where someone dies (usually of leukemia or suicide or a car accident). I didn't like Babysitter's Club or those other types of series. Actually, I don't think my tastes have changed much...!<br /><br />I agree that YA has always been dark. It's a time in our lives where even simple things take on exaggerated importance and the emotions are so visceral and intense. Look at Romeo and Juliet! I just want to know what my kids are reading so that we can talk about our own value system, and also make sure they understand reality when it comes to sex, relationships, etc.Maggie Asfahani Hajjhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15250678324642063148noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3266371808927804670.post-2289812630061088962011-08-09T23:15:22.703-06:002011-08-09T23:15:22.703-06:00When I was a young teen, I was reading Stephen Kin...When I was a young teen, I was reading Stephen King. I don't think I was too traumatized. Well, that's not altogether true. I always half expect to see a pair of scary twins at the end of a hotel hallway.Missed Periodshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10343265071637032284noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3266371808927804670.post-16357001207111859522011-08-08T21:07:36.304-06:002011-08-08T21:07:36.304-06:00I would do quiet creepy cheering with you, AA! :) ...I would do quiet creepy cheering with you, AA! :) I agree that teens have been reading sketchy stuff for ... well, pretty much as long as there have been teens and stuff to read. But it wasn't *called* YA until fairly recently; perhaps this is part of the problem. Now we have a label for what kids are reading, and we're so shocked. (Even though we read the same stuff at that age!)Stephaniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02187854108656107958noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3266371808927804670.post-65698164078205038872011-08-08T20:33:53.150-06:002011-08-08T20:33:53.150-06:00I think kids have been reading risque YA for years...I think kids have been reading risque YA for years, and it didn't harm them at all. Heck, when I see them pick up a contemporary novel at the library I almost cheer (except that would be super creepy).Alleged Authorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04869021184116123477noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3266371808927804670.post-68898095051723690452011-08-08T16:59:47.032-06:002011-08-08T16:59:47.032-06:00What a topic! I believe the YA world of writing te...What a topic! I believe the YA world of writing tends to be a slippery slope, thus why I don't have much interest in writing YA. As parents, we need to be vigilant about what our children read. I am with my daughter and, I'll be honest, there are some books I've made her take back to the library because I believe the content is too dark for her (and this is in grade school). I reviewed a YA novel last year that dealt with sixteen year olds (three of them) getting involved in relationships with men in their twenties (hey, but the author made sure the sex was safe) and I was a little put off by it. I wouldn't want my twelve year old reading that book. And it was then that the broad 12-18 range in years seemed really off to me. There should be a split in there, like literature for "Tweens" and then YA. As authors, we can write what we want and how we want the story to be expressed, but like with any genre (Romance, Fantasy, Historical, Literary, etc.) there are rules to writing the genre. So, why should YA be exempt? Why should it be all over the board without any limits?<br /><br />(Sorry, I had some typos I needed to correct ;-)Mary Maryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09429769115085903305noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3266371808927804670.post-19510076776994122242011-08-08T16:57:44.488-06:002011-08-08T16:57:44.488-06:00This comment has been removed by the author.Mary Maryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09429769115085903305noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3266371808927804670.post-75738904819208409362011-08-08T16:52:40.681-06:002011-08-08T16:52:40.681-06:00I wonder if there ever really was such a thing as ...I wonder if there ever really was such a thing as an innocent childhood. I mean, generally. Alexie's own childhood included enduring horrific physical and sexual abuse. Many of my friends survived a variety of trauma, including rape, car accidents, drug addiction, and eating disorders. (And some of them didn't survive.) A hundred years ago, kids died routinely in farm accidents; two hundred years ago they lost limbs while working twelve-hour days in factories. Harper Lee refers (somewhat obliquely) to father-daughter incest in "To Kill A Mockingbird," and of course her protagonist, Scout, learns what rape is when she's only eight years old. <br /><br />There are kids, of course, who are innocent of all the above, but they are also kids who are probably pretty privileged. And if they are still so innocent by the time they're teenagers, it's probably not a bad thing for them to begin learning about the rest of the world in such a safe way: through books.Stephaniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02187854108656107958noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3266371808927804670.post-31642073170267899352011-08-08T16:39:28.734-06:002011-08-08T16:39:28.734-06:00I would not use the world "privileged". ...I would not use the world "privileged". It´s more a question of being sheltered, of preserving innocence. And there is no such thing as sheltered children (among the Amish perhaps?)or innocence in this world.Violantehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02800111423488923625noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3266371808927804670.post-7161934851878178342011-08-08T16:32:59.231-06:002011-08-08T16:32:59.231-06:00True, my question was rhetorical: I wasn't rea...True, my question was rhetorical: I wasn't really asking a question as much as forming an argument. I found Gurdon's piece histrionic. I don't think there *is* a problem, and even if there were, what is her solution? Do we ban books, as at least one Missouri school did recently? Should publishers turn into culture police, refusing to turn out YA books unless they're about shopping and beach vacations? <br /><br />Sherman Alexie himself responded to Gurdon's criticism with this: <br /><br />"When some cultural critics fret about the 'ever-more-appalling' YA books, they aren’t trying to protect African-American teens forced to walk through metal detectors on their way into school. Or Mexican-American teens enduring the culturally schizophrenic life of being American citizens and the children of illegal immigrants. Or Native American teens growing up on Third World reservations. Or poor white kids trying to survive the meth-hazed trailer parks. They aren’t trying to protect the poor from poverty. Or victims from rapists.<br /><br />"No, they are simply trying to protect their privileged notions of what literature is and should be. They are trying to protect privileged children. Or the seemingly privileged." You can read the whole response here: http://blogs.wsj.com/speakeasy/2011/06/09/why-the-best-kids-books-are-written-in-blood/<br /><br />His retort has now come under fire: the whole issue of YA content has become a heated debate in the blogosphere. It's an interesting argument. I'm looking forward to hearing others' thoughts on it!Stephaniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02187854108656107958noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3266371808927804670.post-55357224676273690482011-08-08T15:46:17.684-06:002011-08-08T15:46:17.684-06:00I believe you have answered your own question, Sis...I believe you have answered your own question, Sister Stephanie. There is no tabu subject for teenagers as long as it is presented in a proper context. But I always say, it´s the reader, not the book. Impressionable young men, high-strung adult women, disturbed people and those with their own ax to grind will read a text asigning it an entirely different (and far more dangerous) meaning than a well adjusted person (regardless of his/her age)would. We do see it with fundamentalists (of all creeds)and their deformation of religious texts.<br />Great subject, great post!Violantehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02800111423488923625noreply@blogger.com